tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post6177466187911750834..comments2023-07-24T03:55:02.978-07:00Comments on Greg's Reflections: How to Make a Gold Duolingo TreeGreg Hullenderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16720604327299886491noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-55054604212810917622017-08-16T05:51:13.532-07:002017-08-16T05:51:13.532-07:00Thanks much. I am going to work my bottom up now u...Thanks much. I am going to work my bottom up now until its all GOLD. then strengthen bar. what if I have some weak ones up top manana. do I redo those then go back to the last??? <br />Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05432830504568524871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-33853908588924159592017-07-26T21:55:05.136-07:002017-07-26T21:55:05.136-07:00I'm glad it still works! And I'm very glad...I'm glad it still works! And I'm very glad it worked for you.Greg Hullenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720604327299886491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-68724062419596265312017-07-26T12:26:01.478-07:002017-07-26T12:26:01.478-07:00I seriously almost gave up on duolingo. I took pri...I seriously almost gave up on duolingo. I took pride in my gold lessons but every time i tried to move forward to the next lesson, a few more past gold were now not. I felt compelled to complete those first and in the end i was stalled. <br /><br />Thank you so much for this post as it's the only reason why i started up again.<br /><br />I muscled through a day of getting full gold again (only about half of the full japanese course) and then did as suggested with 2 strengthening lessons and at least one new lesson. Now i only ever have maybe one non gold while most of the time it's just the new lessons needing attention. <br /><br />Seriously dude, Thank you!AKJacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06979497644507605050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-87191141426058752722017-06-09T22:25:30.756-07:002017-06-09T22:25:30.756-07:00Super helpful. Thank you. I fell into the "St...Super helpful. Thank you. I fell into the "Strengthen skills" trap; silly me for trusting DuoLingo's UI. The ongoing debacle that is Strengthen Skills makes me wary of DuoLingo. But they're free and I respect their purpose.Geoff Homhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00363984481631613707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-8869342914113262382017-05-11T15:35:48.981-07:002017-05-11T15:35:48.981-07:00Extremely helpful. Thank you for taking the time t...Extremely helpful. Thank you for taking the time to share the information. I was becoming quite dispirited with the 'unwinding' of my skills, which I believed to be solid. Now I understand what is happening and what you suggest, I am feeling purposeful and directed. Thank you again. Happy learning.healiganshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782349202080022662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-24571556229394343362017-03-15T08:08:41.376-07:002017-03-15T08:08:41.376-07:00Thanks; this article is really useful. My Spanish ...Thanks; this article is really useful. My Spanish tree is full and I re-guild every day and it does feel under control. However I can't get above 19% fluency no matter how I try. I wondered if it is because I can't type the accents over letters when I'm using my mobile. Duolingo gives me a tick but grumbles about this and I don't know what effect it has. Rhubarbia DeVilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06260904704526719627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-30271606684420073712017-02-24T14:27:50.299-08:002017-02-24T14:27:50.299-08:00Hi all, well I've regilded my tree yet again (...Hi all, well I've regilded my tree yet again (Italian from English), a few weeks ago. This is the third time, ie. the second re-gild. Wasn't hard this time, I seem to have learned much of the grammar & vocab fairly well and can race through it. This time the tree is decaying very slowly, only a lesson every few days. But maybe I re-gilded so quickly that it's all at the same level, and it's all going to decay in a huge bang ! I think I've reached the level now where DL can't help me much, although it's a small motivation to keep it gold. I need conversation now, I'm running a conversation group in Meetup, and Skyping with my old exchange student in Ancona, and still going to my regular classes, and I might try a lesson from the tutors on iTalki. CIao.Greg Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16300145368145342058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-10079350561070578592016-12-05T08:49:01.682-08:002016-12-05T08:49:01.682-08:00I'm doing the challenge in habitica :) thanks ...I'm doing the challenge in habitica :) thanks for this post. Very helpful.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09198938899913019513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-23626326076274218782016-10-29T06:31:07.141-07:002016-10-29T06:31:07.141-07:00Wonderful post Greg H. Thank you.Wonderful post Greg H. Thank you.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05401900846063877172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-73825806862704256152016-10-09T08:10:16.883-07:002016-10-09T08:10:16.883-07:00An interesting article.
Has anyone tested whether ...An interesting article.<br />Has anyone tested whether there is a difference in the persistence of strengthening via the app or via the website? My perception is that using the web, skill-specific strengthening exercises maintains a skill at gold longer than doing the equivalent on the app? I certainly _feel_ as if I've put more effort in (more typing full answers, rather than just drag and dropping words, or choosing pairs), and it seems as though things are staying gilded longer.Kagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02401680278313528483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-46283641215511303692016-10-04T11:57:27.639-07:002016-10-04T11:57:27.639-07:00Very good post! Thank you!Very good post! Thank you!Rafael Marchioli Bernardeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14220101384240656694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-33184883802723492592016-09-06T09:35:26.553-07:002016-09-06T09:35:26.553-07:00Many thanks, Greg, for taking the time to write su...Many thanks, Greg, for taking the time to write such an informative blog. Very helpful and has kept me encouraged.DownhamChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09563949998790981564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-57062503341470588242016-09-01T12:47:26.151-07:002016-09-01T12:47:26.151-07:00I'm currently trying to decide whether to give...I'm currently trying to decide whether to give up DuoLingo for two languages: French and Italian.<br /><br />In the case of French, I've spoken it for many years, have given talks in it and even taught a weeklong course in test-driven development in French. I started to use DuoLingo as one way to keep it up, since it had been a few years since I used it. I did other things at the same time, such as joining a conversational group and a reading group and I regularly read in French. <br /><br />I quickly moved up the tree in French by challenging the levels but then I decided to focus on other things. Currently my tree is rather decayed and Duo says I am 4% fluent. It's a bit silly, but I am somewhat tempted to bring the tree back up in order to impress the cartoon owl character! But really, I think that would be a waste of my time and I should either ignore the apparent decay or just delete French as a language.<br /><br />Italian is a bit of a different story. I'm probably only at a B2 level in Italian, but have spent long periods travelling in Italy, where I only used Italian. Besides DuoLingo, I belong to some conversation groups and a reading group and have a blog in Italian. In spite of Duo being somewhat basic, I still find I get something out of the drills. For example, I just had a good drill on adverbs and there were a few whose meaning I was shaky on. They don't come up in my conversations precisely because I'm shaky on them. In this case, the decay of the tree actually meant something important for me.<br /><br />I think the general rule is to keep using Duo - or any tool - so long as it gives you benefit, and preferably more benefit for your time than the alternative methods available to you.<br /><br />This is as good a place as any to comment that I really like your blog and I'll probably be showing up in more comments as I look at some of the old posts that interest me. As it happens, I live in Poulsbo, so we may run into one another in the real world some day. For now, you can visit me at braniitaliani.wordpress.com.Charliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10103313133746754788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-66890490451357750262016-09-01T00:34:24.577-07:002016-09-01T00:34:24.577-07:00This is a great article! Just the help I need to k...This is a great article! Just the help I need to keep pushing ahead with learning German ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10743887369098107192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-11488886579275932282016-08-31T08:17:07.097-07:002016-08-31T08:17:07.097-07:00There definitely comes a time when Duolingo has no...There definitely comes a time when Duolingo has nothing more to teach you in a given language. Greg Hullenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720604327299886491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-34369541964885482362016-08-30T18:42:37.008-07:002016-08-30T18:42:37.008-07:00The problem I see with Duolingo's decay algori...The problem I see with Duolingo's decay algorithm is that there's an underlying assumption that you aren't doing anything with the language __except__ Duolingo. But of course, once you reach a certain level, you can then have regular conversations, read novels, write a blog, etc. If you are doing that then the decay is meaningless and it may be time to quit Duolingo.Charliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10103313133746754788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-34429774143249077502016-07-20T21:08:47.912-07:002016-07-20T21:08:47.912-07:00Unfortunately Blogger makes it hard to edit other ...Unfortunately Blogger makes it hard to edit other people's posts. (I'll bet that's a feature, not a bug.) But anyone can copy and paste the link. Interesting graph!<br /><br />Yes, I definitely agree that Duolingo is insufficient by itself for learning a language. However, I've found that a self-taught student can organize his/her study program around it, and then it's great for generating grammar exercises.Greg Hullenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720604327299886491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-35308158984487728292016-07-20T18:18:31.365-07:002016-07-20T18:18:31.365-07:00Didn't work, but you can easily paste the link...Didn't work, but you can easily paste the link into a browser. (Or maybe Greg you would kindly fix it). Further notes: some of the data is a bit smoothed, ie. I was away for a few days and didn't do any DuoLingo and maybe ten lessons decayed, so I have spread them back over the preceding few days. It still seems to be decreasing slowly, heading towards 1 to 2 lessons decayed per day. <br /><br />I am ahead of my regular Italian classes now, eg. we are only just starting the Congiuntivo, and we have not yet done a few tenses like Trapassato Prossimo, Futuro Anteriore, Passato Remoto, so I guess I'm fore-armed. Duo's been fun, but it inevitably has many gaps. It can only be about 1/4 at most of a serious language project, but hey it's free and fun, and you can fill time on the bus/train/airport.<br />Greg Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16300145368145342058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-3132990838907973062016-07-20T17:57:36.064-07:002016-07-20T17:57:36.064-07:00Ciao Greg, I have a nice graph of 3 months of keep...Ciao Greg, I have a nice graph of 3 months of keeping the tree gold. Initial decay was about 4-6 lessons a day, falling to 1-3. I have just re-gilded the lessons that decayed, no other revision. Hope this image link works ... <br /><br />[img]http://imgur.com/SnJGcfV[/img]Greg Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16300145368145342058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-80049353729885986642016-07-20T17:15:13.242-07:002016-07-20T17:15:13.242-07:00You left a comment without even reading the first ...You left a comment without even reading the first paragraph?Greg Hullenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720604327299886491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-14065963195903411252016-07-20T12:55:28.938-07:002016-07-20T12:55:28.938-07:00I would like to respectfully submit a question to ...I would like to respectfully submit a question to be pondered. I'm not in anyway looking to stir up a nest, but am just asking an innocent question.<br /><br />Is your goal to have a golden tree or to learn the language?<br /><br />When I see something in my tree that is not golden, it is almost always, without fail, an area I know I am weak in. I look at it as an opportunity to work on that area. Occasionally I will even work on an area that is still golden, but *I* know is weak even if Duo does not recognize it yet.<br /><br />Just something to consider from an old language learner. Robin Lancasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09821888172619943838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-82935609361874690262016-04-20T18:08:06.321-07:002016-04-20T18:08:06.321-07:00Well today I have finished the Italian tree ! I ne...Well today I have finished the Italian tree ! I never thought I'd get there. Over the last few weeks I slogged along and did about 80 to 160 XP a day. You can get in the groove - do a few lessons, take a break, have a coffee, do a few more, do some work, do a few more. One thing that was very useful - the lessons on mobile DL are much easier and quicker, especially for re-gilding some thing you're not very interested in, like Subjunctive Imperfect. But I prefer to stay with the Mac web page for stuff I'm more interested in, like new vocabulary. What was also very motivating, was printing off the tree and calculating my % finished after every new line of lessons, ie. 1 to 3 topics. There are 414 lessons in the current Italian tree. That was painful to calculate.<br /><br />My decay rate was quite variable. At one stage, for a week or two, nothing much decayed. Then in the space of a week, 20 lessons decayed. That was depressing. Now it's fairly stable again, decaying only slowly. I'll try this blog's suggestions on maintaining the tree.<br /><br />My final thoughts on DL ? Worth doing, but you would never learn a language from DL alone. You need proper classes, and a lot of other material to refer to. And DL is very incomplete - the biggest failing IMO is that as you get to the end of the course, there are no grammar summaries - for example, nothing at all on Subjunctive as far as I recall.<br /><br />Thanks again to all contributors here, it has kept me motivated.<br />Ciao.<br /><br /><br /><br />Greg Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16300145368145342058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-2486324128574967362016-03-26T18:30:36.260-07:002016-03-26T18:30:36.260-07:00I meant to write "increasing order of strengt...I meant to write "increasing order of strength." I don't see a way to edit the error.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01113790196002269818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-52934383226519044552016-03-26T18:20:02.332-07:002016-03-26T18:20:02.332-07:00I worked out a simple approach.
Click the Button/...I worked out a simple approach.<br /><br />Click the Button/Tab labeled "Words". Now click the rightmost column heading, labeled "Strength". The words will now be displayed in decreasing order of strength. That is, weakest/most-decayed words will be on top. The words with strength less than maximum are most likely to be presented when you click the "Strengthen Skills" button on the home page. You can review those words before the lesson by hovering the mouse cursor over the word.<br /><br />Every day I do as many lessons as it takes to return all words to the maximum strength level. At this point, that is about 2 to 5 lessons (20 to 50 XP) per language per day. Some words seem to be dropped from the curriculum; their strength level neither decays nor gets strengthened ("yeux" in French and "creia" and "identificacion" in Spanish). I just ignore them.<br /><br />Only once did my tree depart from solid gold in the almost three months since I returned from a vacation break and re-gilded my two trees. What appears to have happened is a set of words were initially presented together in a lesson, and they all decayed together at about the same rate. I expect this to happen less and less as word strengths from the same lesson diverge as a result of typos, carelessness, haste and differential learning and forgetting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01113790196002269818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116153.post-10673757976167614552016-03-08T23:08:23.867-08:002016-03-08T23:08:23.867-08:00Ciao tutti. Well I have just experienced some Duo ...Ciao tutti. Well I have just experienced some Duo decay as per this blog. I was on the Italian tree, about 2/3 through, all gold, and neglected it for about two or three months, and most topics decayed to half strength or less. But I plunged in and did about 10 sessions per day for a couple of weeks, and have recovered. (I wish I could see more than the last 7 days of my activity, it's motivating to see a full timeline of your efforts). It seems to be staying gold pretty well, only about one decay per day now, or even less. I worked from the top down, contrary to Greg H's advice, it just seemed neater. Was weird to go back to "Ciao ragazzi" and all that early stuff.<br /><br />I'm happy really to do whatever Duo asks of me. All language practice is good. If Duo makes you slog a bit longer than you expected, to get a Skill back to gold, that's ok. As Greg H says, you will get a few new words and sentences each time. I have been very pleased to find that early stuff is much easier for me than the first time. And some phrases are becoming automatic - "gli animali" - which is the payoff of repetition. [ I should underline, as I mentioned in an earlier post, that I'm also doing a normal classroom Italian course, two hours per week, so Duo is just an adjunct. ]<br /><br />Message to Brendan: thanks for the Python script, I think I'm not going to have time to pursue that now, apologies. Very kind of you to provide it.<br /><br />Ciao ragazzi !<br />Greg E<br /><br />Greg Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16300145368145342058noreply@blogger.com